Updated MAY O9, 2009 with "steadfast love" (checed: ydoxw) consideration from 2 Samuel 7:11-17

KING SAUL

In approaching our analyzation of the salvation status of king Saul, one thing we are going to learn is that we need to approach the scriptures with caution. We need to be careful about asserting quick conclusions, especially when they are based upon information that was never meant to be comprehensive enough for us to do so. This is particularly true in respect to king Saul's spiritual condition, which leads us to a question that some who believe in the NEST are particularly fascinated with;

Is Saul saved in eternal spiritual salvation?

Some people assert that Saul was (is) eternally spiritually saved; others assert that he was not eternally spiritually saved. Both camps seemingly start with the presupposition that we can somehow determine for sure whether king Saul is eternally spiritually saved. But, as we shall soon see, the facts concerning the matter may not be comprehensive enough for determining either assertion.

Starting out, we need to recognize something of historical significance. According to 1 Samuel 8:7, and 1 Samuel 10:19, Israel, as a nation, rejected God. The Israelites decided that they wanted a man to be their king instead of God as their King. So God goes on to curse them, and He does it by giving them what they want--a human king. God gets the prophet Samuel to,

"... solemnly warn them and tell them of the procedure of the king who will rule over them." (1 Samuel 8:9)

Then Samuel goes on to prophecy in the solemn warning that the king will take things from the people (cf. 1 Samuel 8:17), and that Israel will become the king's servants. Samuel goes on and gives more details of the curse, saying,

"18 Then you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but Jehovah will not answer you in that day." (1 Samuel 8:18)

The man that God gave to the people to curse them was Saul. We do not know whether the fact that Saul was Israel's curse had to do with the fact that he is chosen to be saved in eternal spiritual salvation, or not. We do not have enough details, but it is something to consider. Saul was a Benjamite, so therefore, he was in covenant with God according to Abraham's covenant, and according to the Mosaic Law Covenant. This may seem like it means that Saul was eternally spiritually saved, but being a descendant of Abraham does not automatically ensure eternal spiritual salvation. We know this from what Jesus said to the Pharisees who were also descendants of Abraham under his covenant, and were also under the Mosaic Law covenant. When those Pharisees asserted that they were children of Abraham, Jesus corrected them and said,

"44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father" (John 8:44)

Further, Paul quotes Isaiah to make the point concerning eternal spiritual salvation, that only a remnant of Israel are saved,

"27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, 'Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved;'" (Romans 9:27)

The scriptures do not tell us specifically if Saul was ever chosen for eternal spiritual salvation, but the scriptures do reveal that Saul shows outward religious activity. Maybe Saul's spiritual father was not the devil, even though Saul's life reflected many things that would indicate otherwise. But let us say that maybe king Saul really is of the remnant that are saved, then his sins would be covered (atoned for) under the sacrificial mediating system of the Law of Moses. In the Old Covenant, sacrifices under the Mosaic law, were continually given by the priesthood of God to atone, and propitiate, for sins (cf. Leviticus 17:11). But, Saul murdered the priests of the Lord, whom his own men feared to even kill, (cf. 1 Samuel 22:17), thus demonstrating that Saul despised God's mediating priesthood according to God's Law. Maybe this means that king Saul was not chosen for eternal spiritual salvation.

We know at the outset, that God chose and anointed Saul to be king, and Samuel the prophet gives Saul all the details. But immediately when Saul gets home, and his uncle asks him about what all Samuel said, Saul only tells his uncle that Samuel explained where some lost donkeys would be found. We do not know why Saul failed to tell his uncle that Saul himself just supernaturally prophesied with some prophets (cf. 1 Samuel 10:10), and was just told that he was chosen by God to be Israel's first king. Maybe it is because Saul was humble. Maybe it is because Saul is not chosen to be saved in eternal spiritual salvation. One thing for sure, is that Saul was tall and handsome, and Israel seemed to think that was some kind of virtue. But, God said that king Saul was a curse. Nevertheless, even though Saul was a curse, God still answered the Israelite people's prayers for deliverance, and God decided to use Saul to deliver them from the hands of the Philistines (cf. 1 Samuel 9:16). We do not know whether God used Saul because Saul is chosen for eternal spiritual salvation, or because that is simply what God wanted to do. We know that the Spirit of Jehovah came upon Saul (not into Saul, but upon Saul) and Saul was changed into another man, which was a sign (cf. 1 Samuel 10:6-7). God changed Saul's heart (cf. 1 Samuel 10:9), which was one of the signs (cf. 1 Samuel 10:9). The scripture does not say that God gave Saul a new, clean and pure heart. The scripture does not record that God gave Saul an eternal spiritually saved heart. It just states that God changed Saul's heart. We know that God did not give Saul the "new" heart of the New Covenant that was prophesied in Ezekial 36:26-27. God simply changed Saul's heart at the outset of his anointing to be king, as a sign, thus enabling Saul to prophesy, and changing Saul into "another man," which is a king, and warrior. Saul became "another man" that day, in the sense that he was set apart from his small and seemingly insignificant Benjamite family, to be a king.

Some who believe in the NEST typically say that God gave Saul the new heart of the New Covenant of salvation prophesied in Ezekial 36:26-27, concerning the future work of Christ on the cross, resurrection, and impartation of His indwelling Holy Spirit. The NEST is wrong because that "new heart" is the new heart of the New Covenant which had not yet come. Saul lived and died under the Old Covenant. Additionally, we read that when God gives the "new" heart of the New Covenant according to the same Ezekial passage, it is described this way,

"26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances." (Ezekial 36:26-27)

In this prophecy, (Given generations after king Saul was dead and buried) God says He will someday remove the heart of stone of the remnant. He will put his Holy Spirit in people, and cause them to walk in His Statutes. But, we recognizes that God only put his Holy Spirit "upon" king Saul (cf. 1 Samuel 11:6)--not "within" king Saul. Then later, God took His Holy Spirit away from king Saul (cf. 1 Samuel 16:14). Further, God did not cause Saul to walk in His statutes. Rather, as we shall see, Saul relentlessly decided not to walk in God's statutes. So, we understand that at the outset of being chosen to be the king in the curse on Israel because Israel rejected Jehovah as their true King, God's Spirit was not within Saul. When God's Spirit came upon Saul, one manifestation of what this did, was that Saul prophesied among the prophets (cf. 1 Samuel 10:10-13). Certainly, the fact that Saul prophesied may mean that Saul was chosen for eternal spiritual salvation, but lest we be too quick to surmise such a thing, we must remember that even God caused pagan Pharaoh, and Nebuchadnezzer, to prophesy in their dreams. God also caused Balaam's donkey to prophesy. So the fact that Saul did the same thing, does not tell us much about his eternal spiritual salvation. But God changed Saul's heart, and what that means is that God changed Saul from a seemingly insignificant man, into a king and a warrior. That is why we read that the Spirit of the Lord came upon Saul again, and he ruled the people and led them into battle (cf. 1 Samuel 11:6).

Saul goes on, and eventually sins against God. Before a battle with the Philistines, Saul offers up a sacrifice without the prophet Samuel, which was against God's command (cf. 1 Samuel 13:8-14). It would seem that Saul was simply exercising the prerogatives of a prophet and a king to build an altar and offer up sacrifices himself, such as David did in 2 Samuel 24:25, and Solomon did in 1 Kings 3:15, but the problem was that in this case, Saul disobeyed God's prophet according to 1 Samuel 13:13, and this was a sin. Maybe this sin-act shows us that Saul was not chosen for eternal spiritual salvation. One thing we do know for sure about the consequence for that action is that Samuel tells Saul that God will take Saul's kingdom away from him. Taking someone's kingdom away from them is really severe. Nevertheless, we must admit that such an action is not something that is the same thing as taking away one's eternal spiritual salvation. Later, Saul also disobeyed God by refusing to kill all of the Amalekites and their animals (cf. 1 Samuel 15). Saul feared the very people who wanted him to be king. Saul confessed his sin to God, asked to have his sinned pardoned, and even sought to worship Jehovah with Samuel, Jehovah's prophet (cf. 1 Samuel 15:24-25). Such actions are what one usually finds coming from people who are chosen for eternal spiritual salvation. Maybe these actions prove that Saul was, in fact, chosen for eternal spiritual salvation. But Samuel said "no" to Saul. Samuel refused to allow Saul to go and worship Jehovah with him. Instead of the comforting yes, that Saul yearned to hear, Samuel answers Saul with the sobering fact that God ripped Saul's kingdom from him. Maybe ripping the kingdom from Saul does not exactly mean that Saul is not chosen for eternal spiritual salvation. After all, God takes things from His people all the time. But there is a bigger problem here with king Saul. We recognize that God also took His Holy Spirit from Saul and sent an evil spirit, instead, to torment Saul (cf. 1 Samuel 16:14). Maybe this demonic torment means that Saul is not one who is chosen by God for eternal spiritual salvation. It certainly seems like it. It only "seems" like it because, amazingly, after all the evil we have seen occur with Saul so far, and while Saul is in the very act of sinning by seeking to murder David, (God's anointed, as the one God chose to replace Saul) we read that,

"... the Spirit of God came upon him [Saul] also, so that he went along prophesying continually until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24 He also stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Therefore they say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?'" (cf. 1 Samuel 19 23-24)

Does this astonishing fact, (that the Spirit of God came upon Saul in the midst of his sin), indicate that Saul was chosen for eternal spiritual salvation? It is a fact that God took Saul's throne from him. God gave it to David. Saul feared David, so according to 1 Samuel 18:29, Saul became David's enemy "continually." Continually, in hate filled, spiteful, ongoing fervor, Saul relentlessly tries to kill David, (God's chosen and anointed servant). Saul tried over and over again (cf. 1 Samuel 18:11, 17, 25; 19:10-17). Such actions according to Ezekial 18, would demonstrate that Saul is worthy of physical death, and that without turning from them, God will not bring to mind all the righteous deeds that Saul has done in comparison, and so Saul must receive the death penalty; and Saul did receive God's death penalty (cf. 1 Chronicles 10:13). Additionally, such actions, according to the great judgment of Revelation 21 and 22, apparently indicate that Saul may be judged toward eternal spiritual death as one whose name had not been written in the New Covenant Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world (cf. Revelation 13:8, 21:27). Maybe, this proves that Saul was not chosen for eternal spiritual salvation. We already know that Saul despised God's priesthood--the ones He ordained for the sacrificial mediation. What is worse, Saul murdered 85 of God's priests, along with women, children, and infants, at the priestly city of Nob (cf. 1 Samuel 22:17-19). Maybe, this Satanic action of massacring God's priesthood, along with the others, proves that Saul, the king curse on Israel, was not chosen for eternal spiritual salvation. Just before Saul went to battle with the Philistines, he sinned against God and consulted a spiritist medium (cf. Deuteronomy 18:14; 1 Samuel 28). Earlier, Saul had all the spiritist mediums of the land executed in apparent righteous obedience to Jehovah. But now later, he consults a survivor. Maybe, consulting this spiritist medium, proves that Saul was not chosen for eternal spiritual salvation. But Saul had tried to inquire of God on his own. The problem was that God would not speak to Saul anymore, either by dreams, by prophets, or by Urim (1 Samuel 28:6). So, we recognize that Saul at least tried to receive instructions from Jehovah. But does the desire to hear from Jehovah justify visiting a spiritist medium? Further, does the desire to hear from Jehovah prove that Saul is eternally spiritually saved? Nevertheless, when Saul consulted Samuel's spirit, which the medium called up from the dead, Samuel told Saul;

"19 ... tomorrow you and your sons will be with me." (1 Samuel 28:19)

When we consider God's prophet, Samuel, we certainly must think that Samuel had been chosen for eternal spiritual salvation. Jonathan, who was one of Saul's sons showed every outward indication of being chosen for eternal spiritual salvation too. Samuel seems to be saying that soon, Saul and Jonathan will both be with Samuel. Does this mean that Saul has been chosen for eternal spiritual salvation? There seems to be an indication of this in the text. What Samuel said could mean that Saul and Jonathan will be in a place where the righteous dead go, known as "Paradise," and "Abraham's bosom" as Jesus describes in Luke 16,

"22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony 26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'" (Luke 16:22-26)

There is Abraham's bosom, and then there is Hades across the chasm. Jesus referred to the place of the righteous dead as "Paradise," when he said to the thief on the cross,

"Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:43)

Maybe this is what Samuel meant, when he said,

"19 ... tomorrow you and your sons will be with me." (1 Samuel 28:19)

It sounds a whole lot like what Jesus said on the cross, but we do not really know for sure, because Samuel left out any Paradise reference. So, it is possible that Samuel may have been referring to something else. Samuel may have been simply talking about dying, and so Samuel could have been letting Saul know that he and his boys were about to die and end up with Samuel in the state that comes to everyone after their heart stops beating, which as a primary point, is just plain old death, and the grave.

At this point, it must be stated that the person brought forward from the dead, was really Samuel. It was not a demon, as some so quickly blurt out. No place in the Bible is this incident described in any terms other than this being the real Samuel. To say otherwise, is purely a personal presupposition that is forced upon the incident by modern readers.

Nevertheless, because of consulting the medium, and because of his other sins, God killed Saul (cf. 1 Chronicles 10:13). Saul tried to commit suicide after being badly wounded by Philistine archers, but Saul did not commit suicide after all. He attempted to, but he failed. It was an Amalekite, who, according to God's providential hand, actually killed Saul (cf. 2 Samuel 1:10). Does Saul's suicide attempt, and the fact that God said that He, God, is the one who took Saul's life, even by using an Amalekite, mean Saul was not chosen for eternal spiritual salvation? There is more to consider. David, later sings about Saul and his sons dying together in battle. David sings, that "in death they were not parted" (2 Samuel 1:23). Did David mean that Saul would be preserved in Paradise; the place of the righteous dead, along with his son Jonathan? David may have meant that, but all David says is that in death they were not parted. Certainly this was true in battle, where in dying in battle, they were not parted, and additionally, this remained true in their burial, where we read,

"12 all the valiant men arose and took away the body of Saul and the bodies of his sons and brought them to Jabesh, and they buried their bones under the oak in Jabesh," (1 Chronicles 10:12)

So, both in battle and in burial, they were not parted in death. This fact could be what David had sung about.

Then there is the prophecy that Nathan the prophet spoke to David, who replaced Saul as King. It is a prophecy concerning David's son Solomon;

"11 ... Yahweh also declares to you that Yahweh will make a house for you. 12 When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, 15 but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever." 17 In accordance with all these words and all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David." 2 Samuel 7:11-17

In this prophecy, Yahweh tells David that his son Solomon will commit iniquity. We see that God will correct Solomon with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, but we see in 2 Samuel 7:15 that Yahweh says that His lovingkindness (steadfast love, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, ie. checed: ydoxw) will not depart from Solomon as it was taken from Saul. This does not mean that Saul had a kind of love that was steadfast in an unceasable sense, as some would like to press the word's definition here. The fact that this kind of love can depart, would mean that it was not a steadfast kind of love after all. This detail renders the theory that Saul had a steadfast kind of non-steadfast love untenable. The same Hebrew word, checed, also means goodness and kindness, and this is what it means here for both Saul, and for Solomon, in respect to blessing and kingdom heritage. Nevertheless, there are some who suggest that this could mean that Saul had a kind of love from God that somehow guarantees a type of spiritual salvation at one time, but then Saul supposedly lost spiritually saving love when it departed. On the other hand, it could mean as the text conveys, that God took His anointing away from Saul, along with Saul's kingdom, his earthly life, and that of his progeny, thus rendering Saul's throne to be temporal, and rejected forever in the fulfillment of 1 Samuel 1:13-14;

"13 Samuel said to Saul, 'You have acted foolishly; you have not kept the commandment of Yahweh your God, which He commanded you, for now Yahweh would have established your kingdom over Israel forever. 14 But now your kingdom shall not endure Yahweh has sought out for Himself a man after His own heart, and Yahweh has appointed him as ruler over His people, because you have not kept what Yahweh commanded you.'" 1 Samuel 13:13-14

What we do know for sure about the Davidic promise in 2 Samuel 7:11-17, is that God, in His sovereignty, ordained that the throne of David be the throne that would be established and continue forever. According to the prophetic Messianic promise sense, Christ is the fulfillment of this Who reigns eternally. It is also possible that Saul's story may be a picture in shadow typology of the disobedient people of God. David, on the other hand, may be a picture in shadow typology of the elect. Either way, we do not see clear language, from the actual texts, that eternal spiritual salvation is removed from Saul, or that a kind of love that is only associated with spiritual salvation was removed either. We do find that God removed his lovingkindness from Saul in respect to Saul's anointing, Saul's kingdom, Saul's earthly life, and that of his progeny, (cf. 1 Samuel 28:19, 2 Samuel 1:10, 1 Chronicles 10:13) thus rendering Saul's throne to be temporal, and rejected forever in the fulfillment of 1 Samuel 1:13-14.

These are the facts that God lays before us in His word, and so the question hangs there like a banner from the NEST.

Was Saul chosen for eternal spiritual salvation?

Aside from the facts above, a primary consideration that all of us need to recognize, is that it is merely philosophically assumed by some people that we can really know for sure whether certain Old Testament characters are later saved through the future New Covenant, and raised up to eternal life in God's kingdom on the last day. The truth of the matter is that we can not make such a judgment with 100 percent surety; unless the scripture comes out and states it clearly. This is what should have been demonstrated to us by going through the life of king Saul in the survey above. The main arguments that are usually used to support the view that king Saul was chosen for eternal spiritual salvation, and to support the view that he was not chosen for eternal spiritual salvation, were presented above. The Bible does not give us all the details about everything Old Testament figures thought and said in each moment before they died, or what God ultimately thinks concerning them. We only know what is written on some pages, and as we see, the data is interpreted in more than one way. The only way we will know for sure whether Saul is eternally spiritually saved is in the afterlife; whether we take one of the views now, or not. We do need to recognize, though, that only Christ insures eternal salvation in the miracle of regeneration in the New Covenant. The people of God under the Old Covenants, from Adam to Abraham to Moses and until Christ, are described in their stories as either being obedient to Jehovah, (and so they would be rewarded in this life), or they were disobedient to Jehovah, (and so would be punished in this life). They were saved from their enemies in the physical sense, or delivered to their enemies in the physical sense. They also received material blessings for obedience, or they would receive material cursing for disobedience. Either way, their eternal spiritual salvation would be demonstrated at the judgment in the future, according to their deeds in the past (cf. John 5:29), where they will be judged through Christ at the judgment before God's throne. All Old Covenant people's deeds, if truly in covenant, will either have demonstrated that they were of the remnant that were of Jehovah, or of those who were not. Further, all of the remnant people of God who lived before Messiah, and are made evident by their deeds, will be judged according to Messiah, as Paul says,

"16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Messiah Jesus." (Romans 2:16)

All of God's Old Testament people must be judged according to the gospel of the atoning, propitiating sacrifice for sins, and resurrection of Messiah from the dead. The reason is because the blood of bulls and goats, that were sacrificed for sins under the Old Covenant system, could not really take away sins;

"4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." (Hebrews 10:4)

On the other hand, their future hope, of the sacrifice of Messiah which was once for all time, sanctifies them from sin forever, perfecting them forever, (Hebrews 10:10 with 14)

"10 By this will we [Hebrew Believers] have been set apart through the offering of the body of Jesus Messiah once for all ... 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are set apart." (Hebrews 10:10 & 14)

This is the salvation that the Old Covenant prophet Isaiah knew needed to come. He said, while under that Old Covenant, that all our righteous deeds are like filthy rags (cf. Isaiah 64:6). God also gave Isaiah insight into this future blessing in Messiah, and so Isaiah prophecies,

"13 I bring near My righteousness, it is not far off; And My salvation will not delay. And I will grant salvation in Zion, And My glory for Israel." (Isaiah 46:13 cf. 61:11)

The Old Covenant prophet, Jeremiah, also prophesied the coming righteousness, saying,

"5 'Behold, the days are coming,' declares Jehovah, When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch; And He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called,'Jehovah our righteousness.'" (Jeremiah 23:5-6)

Only the Lord is "our righteousness" of His people through history, and of course He must be our righteousness, because anyone (both Jew and Gentile) must have Messiah's perfect righteousness appropriated to them to be eternally spiritually saved. The point is that the apostles understood that these prophecies were fulfilled in Jesus, whom they called, the "Righteous One," (Acts 22:14), and "the righteousness of God," (Romans 3:21). Hebrews 11 records, (in a very succinct way) how God's covenant people of ancient times, looked forward to the promised Messiah and his righteousness, and so we finish up this morning by reading of those ancient people of God, who lived before the New Covenant in Messiah,

"39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect." (Hebrews 11:39-40)

Apart from the New Covenant generations, no one in the past would attain the saving perfection required. It is only through their future coming Messiah that anyone from before Messiah is made perfect. So, when we analyze Saul's life, we see that he had the kingdom ripped from him because he sinned. We also see that he seldom seemed to express in his life, the faith that gained approval. We also see that many of his sins are of the type that required physical death according to the Mosaic Law Covenant. Further, we see that many of his sins fit those which are the affinities of the eternally damned, according to Revelation 21:8, and 22:15. Both Revelation passages could indicate that Saul was not chosen for eternal spiritual salvation, as judgment according to Saul's deeds, which are written in the books of deeds. Judgment according to deeds, is not a judgment that seems very promising when we consider the Biblical record of Saul's life. Saul certainly manifested many traits of the unsaved. These are big considerations, but all speculating aside, the judgment, where Saul will be judged as to whether he was in the Lamb's book since before the foundation of the world, and "made perfect" in the New Covenant of Hebrews 11:40, will ultimately reveal to us his eternal spiritual condition. Still, we must not forget that God knew beforehand that Saul would be the type of king he became, and so Jehovah raised up Saul and empowered him to be the king who would be a curse to Israel, and he was. The bottom line is that there are some things that seem to indicate that Saul may have eternal spiritual salvation, but yet there are others which indicate that he may not. Therefore, it is safe to say that only God knows for sure what the eternal spiritual state of this Old Covenant Benjamite really is, and yet there will come a time at the judgment when we will all know for sure.